Eve No Question is Stupid Thread - October 15, 2020

Tl;dr: The new trig region has a lot of potential, but after spending a few hours there, I've found the reality a disappointing mess of poorly-thought-out design decisions and unfun / inconvenient gameplay.

This patch has been the most disappointed I have ever been in this game. There's been bad patches before that I've seen coming, and complete wildcard patches that turned out to suck, but never before have I been so excited by the concept of a new patch, only to be disappointed so completely by the result.

To understand why I'm so disappointed, you need to understand what I envisioned for this area of space when it was first leaked:

The corps who choose to move into trig space would live & interact with each other, forming a mini-ecosystem comparable to QFC / RvB / pre-Citadel highclass wspace. Everyone skirmishes, but the groups are "frenemies" and would work together against an external force.
The random nature of inbound filaments means that running logistics would actually be dangerous, since you're forced to take a few stargates if you get an unlucky inbound location. Finally some danger in logistics & opportunities to disrupt hostiles, compared to the near-total safety of nullsec travel with Ansiblexes & Keepstar chains, and the relative safety of wormhole travel along newly-scanned routes.
Groups living in trig space could use nullsec filaments to go on a roam as people do today, but then use an inbound filament to return to trig space afterwards. This would evolve trig space into a more convenient experience comparable to Thera & null static wormholes. You would be able to field a decent comp, rather than usual filament gameplay which tends to be almost entirely one-way suicide roams.
The PvE in this area of space is profitable enough that a small corp could sustain itself and its members, and not be reliant on member self-sufficiency & highclass PvE wormhole setups, as is the case with Thera and most wormhole corps.

I hope that you can understand from this the potential of this area of space to enhance the playstyle of small groups. This patch could have really been the next Apocrypha (2009 wormhole patch). Unfortunately, this isn't going to be the case. Let's get into the bad.

To summarise the bad mechanics:

The invasion content prior to Tuesday's patch was sold as players being able to shape New Eden, but in reality would have continued until Trig took 27 systems regardless of what players on either side did.
The old trig system effects are still there. This includes the -30% warp speed nerf.
Using stargates in trig space requires +3 standings to be able to move around the entire circumference of the region, and +7 standing to access all 27 systems.
Wormhole connections in and out of trig systems are camped on both sides by NPCs, and have the same beacon mechanics as drifter wormholes (ie you land 70k from the wormhole even when you warp to a bookmark).
The roaming gangs in trig space gatecamp, instalock with scram & webs, and are also pretty good at decloaking.
Any systems connected to trig space via wormholes are temporarily invaded by trig roaming gangs
Edit: Apparently the filaments require standings to use, as much as +6? Unconfirmed.

Now, the consequences of these mechanics:

Pro-EDENCOM players got fucked. See this very well-written post for a more eloquent summary, but reading it makes me so happy that I didn't bother with the invasion content. CCP - if my response to reading about someone's experience with your new content is "Wow I'm glad I didn't bother with that", then you're doing something incredibly wrong.
Requiring +3 standings with triglavian is locking new content behind a mindless PvE grind. What a stupid, pointless barrier for entry that immediately puts off the vast majority of pure PvP pilots who would otherwise be interested in this content. Players found a way to take advantage of derived standings to bypass the grind, but CCP has now declared this an exploit, despite derived standings being a mechanic as old as missions themselves. What other unintended ways of interacting with this asinine, archaic mechanic are they going to declare an exploit? Chain rejecting missions to run lvl 5s? Rushing missions by learning triggers & skipping big chunks of the PvE?
Kybernauts - I'm genuinely happy that there is at least one group of players who can engage with this content and enjoy it thanks to their previous work in the invasion. However, I wish these groups luck surviving and thriving when recruitment is stunted by standings mechanics. I imagine that many potential applicants would rather go join a null static corp than spend hours per character grinding trig standing just to be able to take stargates in their new home region.
Locking gates with standings means that even for Kybernauts, any dedicated logistics or scanning alts they have will be unable to take gates. This isn't a clever game mechanic, it's just inconvenience.
Even positive standings players can be randomly attacked by trig in combat. Yesterday, my positive standing character was forced away from a drone supercarrier by a trig fleet, which then proceeded to finish off the super before turning on each other once there was nothing else left to shoot.
Even for players with positive trig standing and positive EDENCOM standing, moving around trig space with anything less than a fleet supported by logi is completely unreliable. Drifter camps instalock with scrams and webs, and solo / small gang ships are simply unable to travel. Eve mechanics should be enabling players to be the main characters of the stories here. Outsourcing gatecamping to NPCs is instead marginalising a playstyle.
The deadspaced wormholes coupled with the camps on both sides makes it impossible to get non-covert ships (including DSTs) in or out except by luck.
When trig space connects via wormhole to another system, there is no real motivation for a player to clear the rats. Especially if they want to maintain neutral or positive trig standing in order to safely travel through trig systems. Akin to frigholes, wormhole or nullsec players who wish to log in and PvE, and see trigs on scan, will simply log out for the day and not play Eve until the wormhole is gone and the trigs despawn with it. The alternatives to waiting them out are significantly harder; the trigs will continue to respawn so long as the wormhole is still there, and rolling the wormhole could take potentially hours thanks to the beacon mechanic.
Triglavian & EDENCOM minor victory systems are now permanent additions to highsec & lowsec. These systems aren't interesting, they are simply an inconvenience on residents attempint to travel through or light cynos. There is a difference between making this game more challenging, and making this game less convenient. One is good, one is not. CCP really needs to learn to distignuish between the two.

To conclude: What I was hoping for was a region comparable to NPC null, with intelligent entrance / exit mechanics and non-scalable PvE that hinders the operation of big groups, allowing small groups to thrive. The barrier for entry looked to be a healthy middle-ground between Thera and wormholes. What we got instead was a collection of random ideas mish-mashed together into a homogenous mess of archaic design principles, and frustrating, inconvenient gameplay.

This could have really been Apocrypha 2.0. Instead, it will probably be another one to forget. I'm not angry, I'm just sad.

Edit: For the record just so this post isn't pure negativity, I'd like to point out that once again the art team are the winners of this patch. The new drone NPC models & the new Trig stations & interior graphics are some good stuff.

submitted by /u/Loroseco
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Meanwhile in Branch, free faction fort for me

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 11:19 AM PDT

TLDR: found a faction fort, 3 wh and 5 jumps later i scooped it in a orca and used filaments and alts got it home to hi-sec

https://i.imgur.com/zqwgDqW.png

the boring story:

so was bored so jumped in to my travel ceptor and filamented out to null and ended up in venal, so burned up to branch/tenal to see if i can find some offline pos to shot or something fun.

ended up in 9-B1DS and spoted the unachored faction fortizar and hanger can on d-scan BINGO

i dont have any rorqs close by or know ppl that live up here so starts probing for wormholes and the only sig in system is a wh BUT its a frig only.. ofc it is *facepalm*

25 min later i have scanned alot of systems and im now 5 jumps away from the fort when i finaly find a large size wh , saddly it to a c4 or something but i jump in and start to scan down the chain

3 wh's away from the null hole i get a realy unstabel large one to hi-sec out in solitute, luckly i have a cargo fitted orca out there so i jump in it

now the problem is that my nice skilled main alt (for a t3c so i can try to fight if i get jumped) is in amarr 29 jumps away so i say "fuck it! i have to get out there before ppl scoope the stuff"

as im just face scouting my way back up the wh chain one hole dies after i jump it but i have filaments in cargo just incase this happend

i come out in null and manage to get to the system and scoope the fort whitout the local ppl (all in ishtars whit the same name) sending out ppl to hunt me, and warp to a safe and cloak up

knowing the chain is dead i filament and pray for a nice null system but Bob is not happy whit me and slams me down in outer passage 30 jumps from hi-sec

so i cloak and logoff when the timer is out and burn a alt out to scan for new wh's but after 30 min of scanning there isent any holes and i have to log for RL stuff

1h later i login and fleet up whit the alt and filament again and get a nice dead system in great wildlands tempting close to hi-sec but i know the pipe is allways camped so back to scanning but now i get lucky and find a large hi-sec hole 1 jump away and i end up 7 jumps from amarr so its a easy travel back home whit the loot

https://i.imgur.com/68dNcv5.png i had to leave 2b in loot in the hanger can that dident fitt in the fleet hanger

btw its not for sale, i will keep it forever or untill i get poor and realy need isk

submitted by /u/uhnboy
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Trig systems now have true wormhole statics into j-space systems.

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 04:59 PM PDT

Just what the title says. It seems like every system in trig space has a static wormhole into a seemingly randomized jspace system. These wormholes can be rolled but immediately respawn and lead to the same system.

This effectively makes the wormholes they connect to completely useless as they are impossible to hole control.

Good job CCP

submitted by /u/SharoHakaari
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Mining in null-sec after the patch

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 06:58 PM PDT

submitted by /u/Captain-Barracuda
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Video of the fight in YZ9 sped up for your viewing pleasure.

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 10:09 PM PDT

submitted by /u/Alrock_Kado
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[Operation FEBTGIP] Since May, we killed 521 POCOs to slowly eat away at the current Monopoly in High Sec.

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 09:26 AM PDT

Killboard: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98369956/

May, 70 killed

June, 73 killed

July, 88 killed

August, 147 killed

September, 51 killed

October, 92 killed

With Niarja being sucked into Trig-Space, travel routes for the Mercs got considerably longer. We noticed an instant decline in any attempts to defend the POCOs, so things should speed up. The last few timers went uncontested and attempts to kill the war HQs stopped. The burnout is real.

521 down, a few thousand to go ...

submitted by /u/Travalgard
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One thing that DID work well: SuperPotato mode. Thanks CCP - it made things much better

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 08:48 AM PDT

If you're not aware, CCP added a new feature to the game client: the ability to turn off the 3D renderer entirely with a keyboard shortcut. I cannot express enough just how much of a quality of life improvement this was for me - the average null-blobber - in the most recent heavy-TiDi fight.

In this fight I was able to have six clients all on the actual battle grid at the same time doing useful things. And those clients - while framerates weren't stellar - performed consistently and accepted inputs the entire time. What a time to be alive.

By contrast, in the recent keepstar battles I struggled to run multiple clients on the grid the actual battle was taking place. At about four, I was simply running out of resources - even with all the tricks bittervets know: the lowest settings, audio turned off, no brackets, and so on. I have a pretty beefy machine: a 6 core processor overclocked to 5 GHz, 32 GB ram, and dual Titan XPs in SLI; those keepstar grids still ground things to a halt. On the second keepstar I stuck to two clients.

So thanks gang. Thanks for adding this. I know it's not the fancy marketing win that will improve KPIs or new player retention or whatever, but it made bitter old null blobbers like me much happier.

Cheers 🍻

submitted by /u/tony-mke
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I haven't been to hisec in years, but have a hisec question

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 05:28 PM PDT

Eve vet here, I do the "order everything via JF service and have it brought to me" lifestyle. I have a market toon in jita that I don't think undocked since I made the character and had to bring to jita in the first place.

So that being said, I remember people complaining that when Niarja fell to the invasion, the route from jita to amarr went from like 8 jumps to like 45 jumps, which I can understand would aggravate hi sec players, frighter pilots, etc.

Niarja is no longer part of empire space now, but I heard a few players complaining about the trip from jita to amarr, and I checked in my route planner in game, and sure enough it was a lot of jumps between jita and amarr when I swapped to prefer safer. So if Niarja is now in a new region, why is the hisec route from jita to amarr still blocked off? I checked dot lan and if you erase niarja, you should be able to go from Kaap straight to Mad as niarja was the only system between the 2? What am I missing here?

submitted by /u/H0n0ur
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Blacksteel Drekavac painting

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 05:46 AM PDT

submitted by /u/El_Geo
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Occasional Player Looking for Advice

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 07:28 PM PDT

TL;DR - I can't play often, looking for a way to fit in or is it time to move on?

A brief intro - I joined Eve because of a small group of friends. We were a small "industrial" corp. Hung out and did some mining in hisec, added other components and manufactured ships. We eventually scouted out and moved into a WH (C2 I think). Added in PI (which I personally enjoy) to the things we did. We had a small POS, knocked down the custom stations. Ended up with some neighbors, but we set low tax rates and all went their own ways. Eventually life changes happened and my corpmates moved out of Eve. I maintained the station for a while, then came the day when a group roamed through and blew the station apart. I managed to get some ships out before the final downfall. 'Tis the risk of living in a WH, no complaints.

I thought about joining a low/null sec corp and trying my hand at a combination of mining/PI/industry and some PVP. Most corps I looked at had time requirements, but on *this* side of the Eve Gate I've got a life that limits my playing time. I joined Pandemic Horde, but eventually got booted because I wasn't on enough and I was taking a slot when they had too many members (no complaints there).

PVP seems to take practice to create the muscle memory and a fleet to fly with. I don't really have either. And scheduling my Eve time is out of the question at the moment. When I could play I did some mining. I know some find it boring, but for me it was kinda zen/relaxing. I have a freighter (not a JF) and did some trading between Amarr and Jita and the other hubs. Some danger, but not enough to stress my skills too much. I also have Covert Ops ship and have practiced "skulking" around, staying cloaked, etc.

I stayed in the game because I liked how immersive it is (beautiful graphics) and I could do what I wanted. There was as much challenge as I wanted and things to explore. I could also not be challenged too much if I wanted and still "do" something. Credit card changes and my Omega time lapsed - took almost a year to get to the point where I had time to care.

I recently re-subbed and wonder if I've made a mistake just reading the reddit conversations. Between "the war" and "the invasion" seems like there is alot of PVP drama going on. Not sure how (or if) I fit as a "casual" player. Not sure, given some of what I've been reading that there is a viable way to do the "industrialist" or "shipping/trading" thing I was doing (for example, the Amarr to Jita run seems non-functional for me now!)

So, any advice on how to fit in? Constructive thoughts would be appreciated. If you're not being constructive I'll feel free to ignore you. :)

submitted by /u/punched_cards
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Center of the EVE Jumpgate Network 2.0

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 09:51 AM PDT

I figured I'd remake a previous post of mine given certain recent map changes

The radius of the EVE map is still 56 jumps, but it has lost one center; its centers are Onsooh, Sendaya, Mifrata, ZQ-Z3Y, G-AOTH, with Lansez having lost its status as a center, with a new eccentricity of 60.

EVE's diameter and periphery are unchanged; diameter 99, periphery 373Z-7, SVB-RE, BU-IU4, 3KNA-N.

Amamake is still the system with the lowest average distance to other systems, but said average has increased somewhat from 25.335 to 25.437. As before, it's closely followed by Evati, Auga, Gulmorogod, and Siseide.

Now we get to the interesting bit: the center and lowest average distance of HS. Previously, we had Kaaputeenen, Kamio, Niarja, Ikao, and Madirmilire, with Kaapu at 13.07 average distance.

Unsurprisingly, with Niarja being cut, this has completely changed: the new lowest average distances are Onga, Frarn, Gyng, Eystur, Pator, with Onga at a significantly increased 21.95 average distance.

The Center of HS used to be Algogille radius 27, it's now radius 37 with centers Frarn and Avesber.

(Note: Last time I made this post, the positions of Kamio and Kaaputeenen were switched, I think this was an error due to incorrect security status filtering causing some HS systems to be flagged as lowsec due to having sub 0.5 truesec that was rounded up. Either way, they are very close)

Happy to take any requests for other stats, but no guarantees.

(As with my previous post; I'm still looking for people unhealthily obsessed with stats, data, picking this game clean to work with; just shoot a reddit pm :P)

submitted by /u/Lorzonic
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Keepstar 4 is go

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 10:14 AM PDT

Why are we here, just to suffer?

Taking bets on how much Goons will feed today

https://i.imgur.com/v3hm0ag.png Goons jumping dreads and it's paused

Goon dreads nuked by PAPI Titans, timer ticking down, is this it?

https://i.imgur.com/Kfv8d24.png

Get ready for another max tidi shitshow tomorrow have fun

https://i.imgur.com/68Ij5pu.png

submitted by /u/Yonis_Pserad
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After the last couple of days, is the titan supremacy narrative changing?

Posted: 15 Oct 2020 10:39 AM PDT

At the start of this war, Vily of TEST stated clearly that he belived PAPI outnumbered Imperium in supers and titans.

Imperium representatives answered in kind. Weeks and weeks of twitch shows claimed that Vily was spinning at maximum velocity and that Imperium by far outnumbered the attackers in supers and titans.

Fast forward a couple of weeks and PGL claimes PAPI moved 1k titans into Querious. Again, Imperium launched a information offensive ridiculing both the statement and PGL as a person.

The imperium has kept up the narrative that they have the supercapital edge and to quote themittani - "are down to fuck" with their supers and titans.

But if we look at the last week a few things have happened. PAPI forces used titans in Delve on all 3 of the keepstars that Imperium killed. And no counter drop was made by Imperium.

Now, one might say, "but they only needed vexors and ravens to kill them!" and I would say OK lad, but what about last night?

18 hours ago PAPI dropped 300 titans, in delve, on 20 Imperium titans during an offensive fortizar timer. Again, Imperium refused to escalate.

And in Ashers own words from his battle report:

"Sitting in front of each other and trading vollies will never work for us. "

If imperium have the larger supercap fleet - and also the strongest industrial base in the game - and unlimited isk. Why cant they just sit in front of papi and trade vollies? Surely that would benefit Imperium? They could "sort by poverty" and then refit into new titans instantly - atleast that is what they told ut.

Very confusing.

1 hour ago. PAPI dropped a 4th Delve keepstar and immidiatly dropped titans on Imperium dreads, with only some 400 subcaps in support. In Delve. Again, no Imperium respons.

So my fellow shit posters - Are imperium playing some kind of 4D mastermind chess with their superiour titan and super fleet? Are they tactically feeding titans and supercarriers to papi in preperation for the great coup de grâce that will finally bring forth the prophecy of TEST IS NEXT!?

Or were the Imperium hurf blurf about titan numbers and industrial might for the last couple of months just hot air?

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Eve Online Weekly /r/Eve No Question is Stupid Thread - October 15, 2020

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