Eve Online Goons donate unanchored Keepstar to PAPI.

I wrote this post a while back, and have thought about posting it as change after change rolled by. Now that the discussion is shifting towards looking at these changes more holistically, it seems just the right time.

This essay began with me simply trying to answer the question: why do krabs seem more likely to threaten to quit than those in other playstyles? Here is my answer:

The current discussions about the "scarcity meta" are operating under a fundamental disconnection: what we consciously want, and what we are neurologically led towards. We have been trained to hate these changes, even if we have also been asking for them for years.

Surely, much of this rage is due to the feedback loop that is the EVE subreddit, but much of it is also real feeling that illustrates the fundamental challenge in which CCP has placed themselves over the last decade. In an effort to make EVE more accessible, they have trained their playerbase into a mindset I would call 'antisocial entitlement,' reducing attention span and player resiliency just as the videogame market is more competitive than ever; and furthermore reducing the social connections players have in favor of individual advancement. In short, CCP has trained us to accumulate rather than achieve. Now, as they try to rebalance the game, they are faced with a fundamentally opposed player mindset that they themselves installed.

Before I lay out my points, let's get a few things out of the way.

Firstly, it doesn't matter whether you think these are good changes or not. What I'm saying is about our reactions to the changes, not the mechanics themselves.

Secondly, I believe CCP's well-worn platitude that "EVE inspires strong emotions," while still generally true (why else would I write this post?!) obscures a lot of the damage they have done to their players' mindsets.

Videogames have a chemical capacity to train us. In the same way that you would use treats with a dog, videogames give us calculated dopamine rewards to keep us playing, keep us progressing, keep us spending money. It used to be that videogames hooked a user by challenging them, triggering a dopamine release in the brain (which can still be addicting, as stated in the first paragraph of that article). Because dopamine is released proportionately to the struggle that is overcome, each level would get harder and harder, and the reward would increase in tandem to keep a player engaged. In contrast, the "modern videogame," if you will, allows for more or less constant progression and keeps the player hooked with visually flashy rewards (damage markers, like in World of Warships, for example) or by increasing the amount of the reward itself, not so much the struggle to get it. So, while older videogames increased reward by increasing difficulty, new ones just increase the reward directly, making them more infinitely grindable for less development time, and ultimately more addicting. This is the fundamental difference between playing for achievement and playing for accumulation. It is a shift happening across the entire industry, and CCP is not exempt.

Over the past several years, CCP has systematically increased iskflow from most major sources, while reducing the barrier for entry with skill injectors, citadels, and sov reworks, among others. Part of this is increasing the actual faucet—anom respawn mechanics, rorquals mining versus hulks—but another part is increasing the functional iskflow, largely by increasing safety drastically. We must be aware, while turning the dials on ratting ticks, they are also turning dials in our brains. Increasing iskflow is their way of following the above trend in gaming, providing more reward with less challenge, making the game more addicting in a shallow way, and less engaging in those deep and meaningful ways that make EVE players feel like they have a secret over the rest of the gaming world.

Perhaps the most direct result of this has been that player progression is now a measure of wealth and assets, not knowledge and exploits. While there are always exceptions—Katia Sae, for example—the general culture and the discourse used by EVE players has swung to evaluating progression based on assets, not achievements—a trend reflected in the countless comments I've seen over the past few days about "little alliances catching up," as if what they own is the only measure of their ability to succeed or compete in game. (There are plenty of wormhole corps who have success without any supers at all, but they don't subscribe to the simple measurement of wealth as success.) Perhaps then we shouldn't think about pvpers and krabs but about achievers and accumulators, however they do what they do. (Yes, I do think pvp gatecampers count as accumulators too.) This leads us to the actual answer to my question: Why do accumulators seem more likely to threaten to quit than those in other playstyles?

If player success is measured in what we do with our assets, and those assets are threatened, we will find another way to do what we do. Our success has been made harder—we have been pushed to the next level, in oldschool terms—but it hasn't been fundamentally removed.

If player success is measured by assets alone and those assets are threatened, we will feel as though someone has reset our progress; our gameplay will be fundamentally threatened, our achievements literally removed, and we will be rightfully angry.

This difference is perfectly encapsulated in the famous blackout meme, in which the hunter's gameplay is based on actions, the krab's on assets. The hunter's gameplay is made harder but not fundamentally threatened, so they try to find a way around. The krab's assets are threatened, and it is a fundamental threat to their existence as an EVE player, not just to their playstyle.

That's not a critique of the accumulator, however. My whole point is that they were lured into that mindset by bad game design. That's not to praise the achiever either—they're just struggling and inventing the way we all used to, and we have seen too many of them get burned out and quit after enough punishing changes. Another way to look at this dilemma is that EVE historically creates a different kind of gamer than other games, one who buys in for massive struggle for massive reward. The krab, in this meme, has been turned into the kind of player other games have, who seeks in EVE what they can get elsewhere. The hunter is a quintessential EVE player, who, no matter how hard their playstyle gets, still can't get that feeling anywhere else. Neurologically, one can quit and one can't.

Of course, either player can still quit. But Blackout, while a total design failure, still does illustrate how it took a decade to shrink the achiever mindset down substantially, and a month to shrink the accumulator.

Despite CCP's rhetoric that "EVE is cruel but fair" and "Everything in EVE dies at some point," and on and on, they have trained us over the past years, using isk and assets to trigger our brains' reward systems more cheaply and fleetingly than real achievement, into a mindset of entitlement. Entitlement for safety, entitlement for the status quo. Entitlement to our sovereignty, so that invaders make us angry rather than excited. The list goes on and on. This has been like the Halo series trying to be COD (Reach, 4…) and losing its identity in the process. In this case, EVE's problem is not a loss of identity, nor a loss of playerbase—it is the metamorphosis of its playerbase into one trained not to accept the changes that are needed for the game's long-term health. How else could this sub have spent half a decade crying for these exact changes, and then turn around and screech bloody murder? What we consciously want and the way it subconsciously feels have been led into complete disconnection by years of irresponsible game design.

That's my analysis. What's my opinion? Two things can be true at once, try to hold both in your head, or at least flip between them very quickly, like an Olsen twin:

CCP did this. They didn't just break their game, they broke their playerbase. They broke our mindset and mentality, and rewrote the fundaments of why we log in. Fuck them forever for that--for exploiting the landmark achievement that is EVE, for nearly killing the game in the process, and most of all, for abusing our trust and endangering our most vulnerable community members.

But also, we need to grow the fuck up. Look, you like this game or you don't. But it should be about liking the game, not your stack of isk or minerals. You could get that feeling anywhere. The really unique thing EVE has to offer is that just finding a way to be in this world can be its own reward. So get your shit together, undock, go see some sights or make a bookmark pack or roleplay, try something new, and if you can't handle that, you were going to unsub at some point anyway. o/

submitted by /u/Arde-
[link] [comments]

Roaming around Delve these days

Posted: 30 Nov 2020 04:45 PM PST

submitted by /u/namahanna
[link] [comments]

Battle for the K-616 Keepstar

Posted: 30 Nov 2020 09:09 PM PST

submitted by /u/N0VABomb
[link] [comments]

The Journey of Katia Sae Video

Posted: 30 Nov 2020 01:33 PM PST

submitted by /u/KatiaSae
[link] [comments]

The shakes after winning a hard solo pvp

Posted: 30 Nov 2020 03:31 AM PST

submitted by /u/Tyran_Cometh
[link] [comments]

Eve player base - I don't have any right to tell you that you are playing the game wrong.

Posted: 30 Nov 2020 04:59 PM PST

Something that has bugged me ever since the blackout fiasco a while back now has been the absurdity of players telling others that they need to stop playing in one particular way and play in another (typically in line with the playstyle of the person spouting such drivel). Most notably has been the anti-krab rhetoric being thrown around. Typically by people wanting to stroke their reddit-peen and somehow seem more than what they actually are.

Let me impart one bit of knowledge to people who believe the above is the right thing to do. If players of other playstyles don't play the way they want to play, it will impact you in some way. Whether through prices, availability of certain ships, modules, injectors, plex, implants, drugs, faction items, ore or even targets. Eve requires a vast amount of players, with wildly different playstyles in order to keep turning.

Two interesting threads recently suggested that players need to "htfu" or "grow the fuck up". No, they don't. Players are more than welcome to stay in highsec and mine until they can't mind anymore. Or do missions, or turn their hand to exploration. Never ever getting involved in PvP. Likewise, players are more than welcome to hunt other players, suicide in highsec to see if they can make a profit or sit in Jita 4/4 doing market PvP. All of these game-play methods are perfectly ok in eve.

My point? You have zero right to tell other players how to spend their time in game. You have zero right to tell another player they are wrong to defend their playstyle should it be impacted by changes from CCP. Also, you have absolutely no right to tell people that playing eve to get huge numbers in their wallet is wrong. It isn't.

Eve requires every single type of player in order to make the game interesting.

Want the game to be more difficult? Want the game to have more targets? Want more PvP? Then push CCP to improve the game, rather than shut-down genuine methods of play in order to increase player retention and bring in new blood. The more people playing, the more targets, and the more difficult the game becomes (Because you have to compete more).

We all want Eve to succeed. Defending the game when it is in a bad state does not help it succeed, quite the opposite actually.

submitted by /u/AneuAng
[link] [comments]

Suggestion: Consequences for Negative wallets

Posted: 30 Nov 2020 07:53 PM PST

We all know of that one alliance out there who has a habit of getting their wallet into the negative by a trillion or so
but that does not stop them from simply ditching the holding corp and making a new one
so i suggest that if an alliance or coorperation has a negative wallet, concord comes and "impounds" their structures, you can still dock, but you loose stuff like asset safety, and the ability to transfer ownership
might even put some fancy effect on it (think the triglavian invasion effect on structures but concord)
that way it "encurages" these certain alliances to stop being a bad

submitted by /u/Space_Reptile
[link] [comments]

-1 * -1: How I didn't find an exploit

Posted: 01 Dec 2020 02:59 AM PST

This happened a few months ago and CCP got informed, It shouldn't be possible now if it ever was *fingers crossed*
TL:DR: I had an interesting Idea to generate large amounts of ISK, but coulnd't quite test if would work.

So as any newer aspiring Eve Pilot I was looking for a method to get a lot of ISK quickly, and stumbled across the Forum Post Goons 4x4ing trough the Sandbox. Now obviously this is old news and no longer works, but specifically this statement

[] that we had to limit ourselves to keeping the total amount on any one character under two billion LP for fears of the number wrapping around to a negative value!

got me thinking. Further research lead the assumption that EVE uses an Integer to store ISK-Cents, and therefore 1.00 ISK would relate to a saved value of 100. Given that the Python maximum integer is 9'223'372'036'854'775'807 anyone that had more than 92'233'720b to his name would see his account go negative, this is clearly hypothetical, as there is only around 1'750'000b in the game according to the MER. So who cares?

I did. But I knew acquiring this amount of funds would be totally impossible, but why not go the other way around, loose so much money that you wallet goes positive again? That's what I was thinking about. There is two methods to reach a negative wallet:
- Getting CCP to not like you
- Contraband
CCP is obviously not a predictable thing and as such only Contraband is useful for a further Inspection. There are only 8 different contraband Items (there used to be more), each with different Legality in different Regions. For anyone not up to date with this mechanic, when you get caugth with contraband in your cargo, the following happens:
1. You get a fine and/or standing Hit
2. You are asked to hand over the Items or you will be shot at.
2.1 If you jump a gate you usually escape
2.2 If you get shot at and eject the contraband you will be spared

My goal was to get as many hefty fines as possible without getting shot at, as such I would also have to keep my standings in check so I am never KOS. I did a spreadsheet with all the options and found out that hauling Slaves in between Amarr and Concord Systems as I could easily obtain a Freighter full of Slaves in Amarr Space which is adjacent to Concord Space (in Genesis) and Concord gives you a 800% of estimate Fine but no Standings hit. The last part to the coup was to manipulate Slave Prices high enough so it wouldn't take years to make the necessary amount of trips. Given that a Freighter can transport around 169'000 Slaves and with their estimated price manipulated to around 100m I would get a fine of around 135'200b and as such it would need around 680 trips back and forth on the Gate. That is around 60 hours, the ISK/h would however be worth it.

I would have to make a throwaway Character and skill it into a Freighter, buy a Freighter full of Slaves and then Control the Slave Market for 3 months. Before doing so I would however have to test a few things.
a) Contraband mechanics (do I need backup Bumpers/Guardians in case anything goes wrong?)
b) Contraband fines (Do they work as it says in game?)
c) Underflow (Does it actually work?)

a) I realized that aver some time you get shot at anyway (with 100% webs), so there was a need for Guardians / Bumpers
b) All tested contraband fines did loosely match up with the expected values, but not precisely, they could just as well be fixed, or the Estimates fixed...
c) Who knows?

The prospect of either loosing a lot of ISK and Time or destroying the EVE-Economy didn't really seem enticing (Just donate so much ISK to your enemies Wallets that is underflows and they can't do anything - next level market PvP) so I finally decided to write a Bug report.
Maybe CCP would at least say that is was or wasn't possible ?
I got the following answer:

I've looked into this and it does not appear possible to underflow the wallet in the manner you are describing, which means this exploit is not possible.

So that's it. I guess I would write the same thing if it was possible... but idk. Thanks for reading!

P.S: Is there any Theorycrafting Discord for Eve?

submitted by /u/Larynx_Austrene
[link] [comments]

Where is the visceral fun in eve? Is there any?

Posted: 30 Nov 2020 11:38 PM PST

So, where's the fun in eve?

Before anyone says I'm looking for something in the wrong place, just hear me out. If none of you can answer this to my arbitrary, entitled, selfish, and immature satisfaction I'm going to use this thread as supporting evidence to say we all hate this fucking game and need to just uninstall it so we can put our money and time toward more productive dopamine generators. like fleshlights.

If you strongly disagree with my bullet-points to follow, I'd love to hear why.

Also, I'll accuse you of having Stockholm syndrome if you insist, without a novel argument, that the game must have such painful PVE activities to enable some other unique game mechanic. I'm not here to complain about slow server tick rates or the movement controls, there are slower games than eve that are more consistently engaging. I'm asking this because I want to get on the same page with everyone else on why there is so much fucking angst over the attack on semi-AFK isk grinding, and if you're not sure why that's relevant here, DM me and I can share the crayons I brought as my snack for later.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/visceral

Where is the fun in eve that appeals to our crude, unthinking, unintellectual, and elementary emotions?

If you're somehow not sure of what kind of fun I'm talking about, it's just anything that appeals to the inner (or outer?) man-child. Race cars, tanks, and airplanes going vrroom. Guns going bang. Lasers being bright, loudly. Occasionally having to use both hands to play a game. Stimulated senses. That sort of thing. Forget higher minded things like "having friends" or "doing this for virtual money", just the kind of simple, immediate and in-the-moment fun that doesn't require any higher functioning brainwork.

Where can that be found in eve? Anywhere? I don't think I can really say I've totally been around the block in the game, but unless there's something radical hiding out there that doesn't resemble missions, mining, ratting (wh,belt,anom,abyss), incursions, and isn't just conventional PVP funded by pain or plex, I think its safe to say:

There is no viscerally fun PVE in the game. solo, or co-op.
PVE activities are tolerated, not enjoyed, and apparently widely hated.
Players electing, or otherwise forced, to engage in PVE activities are forced into a "what do I hate doing the least" dilemma.
this dilemma is unjustified, and doesn't offer a bargain like a fair game-design trade off should (ie: the way tidi is annoying but the trade is to allow the game to keep running in extreme conditions instead of just crashing)

I think that last one is the most important. at least, it's the one that frustrates me the most.

I made a rambling and unimportant post in /u/Arde-'s bretty good thread and his reply made me want to ask you nerds this simple question, because I want to be either proven wrong and shown where the fun is hiding or have my stinky opinion validated.

What PVE activity is actually fun to you? Forget the income for a second. Forget notions of 'risk', because at every level of risk the underlying game doesn't appear to change much. What PVE activity could you do on the test server for 90~ minutes alone just because you're entertained by it? It still counts even if you have to drink. What if you had one or two friends with you? Can you think of a single PVE activity on the test server you could convince two non-eve players to come try, and stay for the whole play session?

I suspect this is going to be received like the dead horse spanking it is, and ignored, but in the context of CCP choosing to (with the best intentions, I believe) put crosshairs on one of the most tolerable PVE activities I can think of, and the angst and complaining stoked by what should be innocuous change to drones, I'm hoping more folks can get past grieving for their low friction ticks and focus on the underlying problem of players' hopes and dreams being "least pain that sustains my gameplay" rather than just...fun gameplay.

Make sure to like and subscribe to my blog, and remember: GONADS

edits: for length

submitted by /u/invertedwut
[link] [comments]

New Player Perspective - Eve Playerbase is Soft

Posted: 30 Nov 2020 09:47 AM PST

Recently started playing after reading some of the crazy stories about this game and have been having a great time figuring out all the things I can do and finding my place in the game. I gotta say though, all the posts on reddit complaining about the "age of scarcity" are pretty disheartening.

From the stories it sounded like the eve playerbase was pretty hardcore, but all I see are entitled children who think they deserve to fly any ship they want, whenever they want, with no effort. If you want to be rich there are obviously still going to be ways to make it happen, but if you want to put in minimum effort why should you expect to be able to afford everything you want? Isn't it better to not always be able to afford what you want anyway? Delayed gratification makes the prize and loss of the prize more meaningful and meaningful loss is the most important aspect of this game. The most recent changes only improve this situation.

It's really depressing to see people oppose the changes under the guise of caring for the new player. The new player doesn't care about rushing to the end. The new player is already having fun flying cheap ships and trying new things. The new player wants a meaningful experience. The new player is happy with the changes.

So please htfu because all the whining is hurting the brand you all built for years and a major turnoff for players that joined wanting a hardcore community, not to mention kind of pathetic.

submitted by /u/MPComplete
[link] [comments]

What am I missing?

Posted: 30 Nov 2020 01:05 PM PST

So the discussion at the moment regarding scarcity is a little confusing to me. I see posts mention that certain playstyles are no longer available and that people are no longer able to play the game the way they want to.

So my question is, what mechanic has actually been removed from the game to make said playstyles not available anymore? From my understanding they have just been nerfed, you can still go about what you enjoyed doing.

I have no problem with people playing this game however they feel like but I am lost as to how a nerf is a removal of a mechanic.

So, what am I missing?

submitted by /u/AstroJeb
[link] [comments]

Planetary interaction setup for biocells, I would like some tips for my setup if you guys can help me.

Posted: 01 Dec 2020 02:24 AM PST

Hey there, I am a semi-noob to the game and I would love to hear some tips regarding PI. I do have a 1.5 billion worth, but thats from mining and some industry only.

So far I have one production planet and one extraction planet.

I was thinking to have a total of 4 planets for my biocells, 2 for extraction and 2 for production and maybe one more planet later for a T2 item from biocells. What do you guys think?

Shoud I got for T2 items right away or are biocells decent enough? I am not sure about this.

Also, I am in high sec so there are taxes, but I have done some of the calculations and it is still a decent income.

submitted by /u/jukabukaer
[link] [comments]

Secret bot network burns to the ground!

Posted: 30 Nov 2020 11:09 AM PST

submitted by /u/J0HN_Sheppard
[link] [comments]

December First Is Here

Posted: 01 Dec 2020 01:12 AM PST

submitted by /u/Designated_Daddy
[link] [comments]

Why can't I start Smash and Grab?

Posted: 01 Dec 2020 12:25 AM PST

As the title says. I have a general idea why, my standing isn't high enough -

But I'm right now trying to hand in serpentis tags, and can't get offered the mission for it. I'm in eukenbiron, i've found each agent personally but they won't offer me anything (my standing is .9)

I might have done one of these missions already...?

I might need to do ~16 missions from (X) agents in order to get the offer..?

I'm really confused, and don't know how to check any of this

submitted by /u/BenedictBadgersnatch
[link] [comments]

CCPlease just let us delete these f**king things

Posted: 30 Nov 2020 05:52 AM PST

submitted by /u/Abstract_Unknown
[link] [comments]

Breaking News

Eve Online

Tuesday, December 1, 2020

Eve Online Goons donate unanchored Keepstar to PAPI.

Eve Online Goons donate unanchored Keepstar to PAPI.

No comments:

Post a Comment

Popular

Blog Archive